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The Founder Formula
The Founder Formula

Episode · 3 years ago

Mario Ciabarra, Founder Quantum Metric - The Three Most Important Attributes Founding Tech Teams Need to Possess

ABOUT THIS EPISODE

Today’s guest is Mario Ciabarra, CEO and Founder of Quantum Metric

Mario tells his story about working nights and weekends to make his entrepreneurial dream a reality. He also gives advice on how to hone your pitch messaging for VCs, why the messaging for pitching CIOs is different, and the three most important attributes the core members of your team need to possess.

If there are people listening that wondering what do I need to have success? I've come to find that these three attributes are the critical recipe to success, and it's passion, persistence and integrity. The founder Formula Brings you in behind the curtains and inside the minds of today's brave executives at the most future leaning startups. Each interview will feature a transformative leader who's behind the wheel at a fast paced and innovative tech firm. They'll give you an insiders look at how companies are envisioned, created and scaled. We hope you're ready. Let's get into the show. Hey, everybody, welcome to the PODCAST. Super excited today we've got an amazing guest, but first let me introduce our host. Mark Campbell is the chief innovation officer at trace three. Mark, how's it going, man? Oh, terrific, terrific day here. I'm super excited for today's guest. You know, Todd, when we were kicking around the idea and coming up with the framework for the tech founders journey, today's guests was one of the examples I was kind of running through on on the type of people that we wanted to get onto the call. So I'm Super Jazz. Super Jazz today. Yes, our guest is we couldn't have them at a better time. There's a lot of media around him, so we're super excited, a well earned our guest was just named entrepreneur of the year by Ernst and Young in the mountain region. He was also just published in Forbes also. Amazingly, if you happen to be walking around the Denver Airport, you might see him and his company featured on a video display and we'll get into more details on that. But let me introduce Mario Chibarra. He is the CEO and founder of quantum metric. Welcome to the show, Mario. Thanks. Hi, thanks mark, great to beer. Yeah, this was going to be fun. This is going to be fun. Mario, can you give us, just for context, a little bit of background and framing of quantum metric? Super Super Interested and kind of hearing where you're at right now on the journey. Yeah, absolutely. So company started in two thousand and fifteen, so it's been about about four years along. The product was was generally available in middle of two thousand and sixteen. Began selling obviously around then, and within three months we are cash positive and profitable. It's kind of a fun initial start to the company and we've gone quite a long way. We're just rounding the corner of this this month at a hundred employees. We have some incredible enterprises on board across verticals from retail, travel, hospitality, banking, financial services, just really some incredible success here in the US and across the globe, and I'd love to share some more our home of that journey, as we discussed today. Yeah, absolutely, and this, of course, is not your first Rodeo, so to speak. You got...

...give us run down of the other companies that you've formed and how that kind of led up to the formational quantumtric absolutely market. It depends on how far you want to go back, because I can go back to about when I was five years old and started selling candy to my peers in grade school. Well, let's take it back to Philly. Let's take about exactly. Yeah, I mean I grew up in a family of six and the youngest of six, and that tells a little bit of about my personality, to be honest. But growing up in northeast Philadelphia in very well to do general neighborhood, but my family. My father had immigrated from Italy, didnt come over with much and when you when you're surrounded by people that are doing a bit better than you would kind of motivates you to go out to be successful yourself. So that was early on. And and not having a ton of wealth in the family, you know, you start to try to look at even an early age like how can I make some you know, incredible some financial gains? And so they was, you know, early on. The absolutely I was selling blow POPs in grade school, to be honest. Elevated to like mm's and sneakers as I got older, but I took a job when I was fourteen in retail and selling clothing and it just it continues as spiral. Around Sixteen I started my first start up, if you can say that. It was a terrible will failure, but it was one of those success affairs. I guess I look at it as in terms of it was a learning lesson around staying grounded. You want to you kind of want to shoot for the stars whenever you start your own business, but I think one of the things you need to keep in mind is where's reality? You know, you kind of want to be very optimistic, but what's the worst case Scenari that could happen? So you prepared for maybe what might happen. And in in college I started another one. And then Post College, at which I think is the really the beginning of the fun discussion, I began a company called deav stream in two thousand and three and it happened to be very fortunate about its success. And so and in two thousanand and four, about eleven months later, I sold that company. WAS A an application performance monitoring tool for Jaytoe service. So I guess today's comparisons would be the AD dynamics, new relics and diner traces of the world. And I sold that to copy where in two thousand and four. So very fortunate success early on in my career. Yeah, that's another an amazing story. And you've had a couple other companies in the interim leading up to the quantum metric. One of the things that certainly I know for me, but in discussions with other folks in the IP industry, one of the things that comes up a lot is just not every Ip guy wants to go and start up a new company. Yeah, I want to get my buddies the other we're going to go do the start up. But it all hinges on that one step of when when you walk into your boss and say, Hey, I'm want to give my two weeks notice. Oh where are you going? All to start my own company. Now you across that threshold. What led up to that moment for you? What was that compelling reason that you thought it would be good to forego full benefits and a paycheck to go out and and get some classy office space?...

You know, the funny thing is, I didn't. I'm pretty risk adverse, I guess you could say. So when I started my first company, Dev Stream, you know, our first real enterprise start up, I didn't know. I wasn't I wasn't quite sure, and I guess the situation that I was in was that I was able to to and I was a pronomer, I was an engineer, and so I didn't need to go get funding and higher developers, etc. I could do it myself. So I actually turned to my wife I said, listen, had this really good idea, I'd a really good feeling about it, but I don't want to quit my job and put us in a family situation. That would be difficult financially. So what I'd like to do is go do this in my nights and week and so really what I'm going to be stealing from is our personal time. So she turned to me and said, okay, well, how long is this going to be? What am I you know, what am I committing to? And I said let's give it a year and then, as I mentioned earlier, eleven months later I sold the company. So it worked out very well. But I remember about six months into that company, you know, you start to feel this tide, it's pulling you in, and I had at the time to sales. It was about Fortyzero in revenue and I was like, you know what, I think I could actually do this full time. And that's that's when I did that two weeks notice. Now I think it's really important for me to mention some thing really, really important, if for folks listening in case they happen to be from that same background and of Engineering. One of the things I did right before I started the companies I went to my boss that the company I was working and I said, listen, I have this really good idea. I'm going to be working on it on my nights and weekends has nothing to do with my work here. I need you to sign this letter that confirms that you agree that this has nothing to do with my work here and I own all of the electual property of this side project I'll be working on. And of course, you know, he got legal involved and they signed it and that was, you know, the foresight I just I am almost shocked that I had the foresight at the time to think through that, but it was extremely important because when I went to go sell the company, they were freaked out like hey, look there, you working for this this global, this huge company. They might come into us, and I said no, they won't, they've already signed off on it, and so that was that was a huge win kind of having that foresight early on. So to something I wanted to share with my you know, about my journey. That's a crazy story and mark and I had the privilege of meeting a Steve was Nia at an event and you know he shares a similar story where he was inventing pretty much the Macintosh while he was working at at Hewlett Packard and when Steve Job said to him like hey, we have to we're going to sell this he's like, well, I think Helett Packard owns a lot of the IP. He walked into the attorney's office show them what he'd made and said he wants to own it out right, and HP agree to it. Their attorneys did it. And so in my head I'm thinking that's probably the only time in history where you could be working for a company and in the legal team would allow you to develop something on your own. But it sounds like you literally repeated it, you know, thirty to forty years later. That's that's a huge chair. You know what the funny thing is that about your story is that I actually had lunch with Steve was and his wife Janet, and the funny thing is, like it to pull this into like the repeating story, is that the company...

...that I was describing was also HP. So, oh no, yeah, it's too funny. Right. The did history, Piezza itself. Is Why it's good to read history books, because it just repeats itself over and over and over again. And Steve, Steve's an amazing guy, right, just incredibly incer, really really talented engineer, kind of this just this godfather of computer engineering. So but yeah, I know it's, you know, like to think about what might happen early on is extremely important and it were, that part repeats itself beyond just Ip but you know, in this company, you know we had some early on, you know, people that were part of the you know, the founding team to some degree, and like how is this relationship going to work? What do we how we going to define it? And then they really think about the what if. So, what if I don't want to be here anymore or they don't want to be here anymore? What is it going to look like? How is he equity going to fall, you know, kind of come into play, etcetera, responsibilities of expenses and all that stuff. There's a lot of the what ifs and I think, like my story around staying grounded in that first startup that failed, like it's the more you think about some of those what it's early on, the better off you'll be prepared for when those webs come to fruition in the future. So you mentioned something I think is quite key and that's a the picking of that founding team right. You mentioned some of the attributes that you looked at, you know, like how's equally going to be displayed out? I don't I pick the people that I think are going to be around for the long gold, people that have the same vision as me. Dot Dot. How did you go about picking your founding team? I have to know some of the people on your team and, and Kudos, I mean you certainly were able to corral in the the cream of the crop from a couple key technologies and industries out there. How did you decide on that and then, more to the point, how'd you pull it off? You know, I think the most important part about a team is their personal attributes. Right, like I found geniuses before. You know, I've been lucky enough to work with really intelligent people and I would almost hate to say it out loud, but it doesn't it doesn't quite matter. It's not. That's not the critical recipe to success. You have to found people. I would say that we found three attributes, and this is maybe not the founding team attributes that I had. I just didn't know in the early stages. But I've come to learn about our team that there are three attributes. So if there are people listening that wondering what do I need to have success, I've come to find that these three attributes are the critical reciping of recipe to success and it's passion, for distance and integrity. And when you find people that are passionate, that that really want to be here, they're doing what they love, which is me, by the way, like I love what I do every day. Persistence, which is, you know what, we're not going to be perfect, we're going to fail. I make mistakes too. It's okay and I won't judge anyone that makes mistakes, but I need you to get it across the finish line and I expect the same amount of myself. Like I might break something, I might not be perfect, but I will get it across the Finnish line. I don't need someone micromanaging me, I...

...don't need someone babysitting me. I will get it across the finish sign and with integrity. I just I've worked with people that don't tell the truth to their peers, to their colleagues, their customers themselves, and it's foolish and it's just a waste of time, a waste of effort. Things like politics, they really brewed out of this this kind of stew of lack of integrity. And so when you find those three attributes on your team, it's amazing. Now on a founding team, I think you need a little bit more than just that. I think you need insights people have that have felt the pain. If you if you try to create a product for someone that hasn't felt the pain, good luck. It's going to be extremely difficult because I think people that have felt the pain that they understand. Okay, I'm in the shoes of my customer. I know what needs to be solved. So those three attributes plus, you know, insightfulness on around the actual problem that's being solved. I will go back to massive amounts of intelligence, is a huge advantage. So I think that was great and I think we had that in our founding team. I think that your a founding team is certainly set you up for those initial successes and you had the the great fortune of being able to kind of get quantum metric off the ground with, you know, self funding and, you know, a fairly early revenue stream. But at some point you kind of were like, okay, in order to, you know, put after burners on this jet engine, we're going to have to get some venture funding. You, of course, we're able to garner some fairly reputable BC firms like pain and insight come alongside you and help fuel that adventure. When you went to go pitch quantum metric, how I mean, how did that go? Did you just walk in, make one pitch, boom, they handed you a check. Did you go in, lay an egg, honed it? Like, how did that all go? Yeah, I love how you said Pitch, but I'm going to I'm going to correct and say pitches. You know, I don't know a founder that hasn't done a lot, a lot of pitches and and for us it was multiple time. So early on I was curious. I had some venture capital friends that had approached me on previous start upside done as a comment. I'm curious what they're going to think about this new idea. And so early on kind of made made the the loop, the Sandhill Shuffles, as some people refer to it, and it was I guess. You know, I remember one comment that I'll just share because it's a super embarrassing and I think it's a funny story. Is I had never been through eventual I vc process, for this is my first BC, you know, taking investments, and so I don't know, I'll put it together when you hear the comment with the BEC said it would be pretty it's going to make this more clear. And so we're, you know, we're going through the problem definition, how we're solving it our advanced technology. This is all great. They're kind of like, this is cool, we're excited. And then it came down to okay, what are you raising? And I don't know how to answer that question exactly. I've never done it before. Is My first BC meeting and I set it in a way where the response from the investor, the potential investor, was...

...a kind of looked around the room and he said, I feel like I'm on shark tank. Look the way I said it was basically like the way I've seen it done on TV, which is like a shark tank episode, and I'm like, Oh, is it's that's not that's not how it's done here, you know, in Silicon Valley. Says it was quite funny. So you know, you kind of learned along the way and I think if you really want to do invest thing in silicon value outside, I think you're going to discover real early on it's going to take many iterations. It's not the first time you walk in and I think one of the things you're going to do along that way is learn, learn a little bit about that process, learn about what's what's it like to be in the investor shoes right what are they willing to make bets on? And I think it's finding the right people, as you I think. I think now looking back and now having secure funding and really that last round where we kind of felt like the prompt can your queen around, you know, kind of everyone was really wanting to go to the ball with us. I think you'll find that money is easy when you have the right ingredients. I think it was more about finding the right people for us and that is something that if you actually hit success, you're not it took me by surprise. Right, like money is easy, it's finding great partners. It's almost like a marriage and you want to find great ones and I'm so thankful both with, you know, being capital ventures, as well as insight venture partners, the relationships that we have there. It's just like it's just been. It's been incredible and they foster and they deliver on what they promised. So really, really fun. So, you know, as far as the process of happening, to go into more detail, but it was it was a journey. Was Not the first pitch. You get a lot of nose and I think you have to have some thick skin, because just because you kind of know once doesn't mean the next time you come back as literally some of the folks I give us a note. The first time we iterated, we perfected our pitch. We protected kind of looking at it from their lens and got the you know, obviously got the the yeses later. You mentioned Shark Tank, right and we've all watched it. I love that right because it really really teaches you to be prepared. But you shed a light on something that is I also learned from that show, and it's somebody might go in there and pitch and they might have a great pitch and you, as a viewer, you're like, oh, so this is awesome, like I want to invest in this, and then they have three people that are throwing out funding opportunities to the person pitching and to your point, they end up picking the person who is the best fit for them and that might be personality type, that might be understanding the space that they're in, but they never go with the what I've seen, unless it's the only offer. They never go with the super aggressive, non culture fit when given the choice, and what you described is exactly what you see bear out on that show. Yeah, it really is about it's about people like you can find money reasonably easy if you have a great idea. I think the other learning lesson I had from the early pitch to to where we ended up in the last round. Investors don't like I'm a product person, but...

...this company would. It's still is a product driven company and I love the technical parts of what we do and it's super differentiated and we won early on. We started getting our early investments from our customers because of that product differentiation. But from an investor's lens that's important. But if they don't really they don't really want to see a demo. Like a customer wants to see a demo and investor wants to see a thesis around how is this going to be a multi billion dollar company tomorrow? And that was kind of an adjustment that we had to make. And you know, Shark Tank, I think it's it's a little bit more product driven. I think the sharks, you know, start to ask a little bit more about the business and kind of pry that out, but I see it more talking about the product and I think when you go into where you're talking about tens hundreds of millions of dollars, you got to convince the audience that there's a huge market, huge opportunity. And you know, I think to talk a lot about the invest in people. I make fifty on that. You're from from some of the conversations I've had, but they do. There is, it's an important component. Is You know who the entrepreneurs who? They're founding an OCTORING team. They're going to invest in them. But but it's really that market opportunity and part of it, and I hate to say it, is it's it's timing right. You got to find the right market and you got to hit it right before it gets big, because that's really where you'll be able to get you know, I hate to say the words cash in, but like cash it on that return, that opportunity doesn't guarantee a win, but I think if you look at investors where they like to invest, that early, early part of that hockey stick curve is the fun part. It's really where they can get a huge multiplayer. Yeah, and you mentioned who they want to when invested. In this case, you know you and your company and you talked about, you know, passion, persistence and integrity. I think that's exactly what they're looking for, especially around the persistence right. And so, you know, I'm just going to throw in a quick question mark you when you talk about one of the things that we hear a lot on this on this podcast is pitching to the VC's and pitching to a CEIO are completely different. And when you mentioned, you know, the integrity part and knowing that you definitely can feel the customers pain and have a solution for them, can you tell us a little bit about about the customer, the CIO, maybe some examples about of of how quantum metric has helped them or how the pitch has gone? Yeah, it's funny because like the pitch. I remember pitching a probably a hundred, maybe two hundred different ways of what we saw. It's it's the same problem, it's the same product, same company, but how we convey the value that we bring and one of the things I learned early on in fact, to be honest with you, I remember being at a trace three conference like three years ago and it was one of the founders of net APP it was Dave overre at Nett Act explaining to the audience about how he was pitching Georgia Pacific ceio. And if you don't mind me repeating his story, it was, you know, he was fifty minutes into one hour pitch and the CIO was calm and listen to him talk about a the technical details and how sophisticate the product was and how it changed this and that and the see I have Georgia Pacific. said to him, Son, I've listened to you for fifteen minutes tell me about Du dats and gadgets and whizz dangs,...

...but I never heard you tell me won't how you going to help me make better toilet paper? And I was like wow, like that it mean. That's stuck with me. I actually actually ended up, you know, running into Dave in a Sushi restaurant in Paul also, just arbitrarily, randomly walked in. He was sitting there. I grabbed this seat and we had a good conversation about it, like two years later, but it's stuck with me. It's stuck with me so much and when I talked to CIO's Today, I think about being in issues. In fact, I talked a lot of trusted component ceios and say hey, listen, is this going to resonate with you? And and I iterate the pitch and I've done and you know, just you're constantly refining. How are you going to communicate that value? And I think one of the challenges for CIOS is that they've felt like a cost center for just, I mean almost over a decade, right. They feel like some of the business puts them in. How much does it, it department, want now? Right? But I think what's happening, and there's a word that I tend to not like to use, but I'll say it, is this digital transformation. There's no end, there's no beginning. It's been happening for a long time, it will continue to happen for a long time. A part of this digital transformation has this this realization that it doesn't exist as a cost center or enablement. It really it's part of the business and they can bring a business lens to let's say, for example, Data and how can the engineering and it organization give a perspective of you know, I think driving business outcomes which are increasing revenue, decreasing cost like reducing costic for example, into the call center and getting better digital channel adoption. How do we take data and inform the business on how to do that? And I really think it comes down to a very simple symbol problem, and I think one that resonates with Cios, is do you want to look more like Netflix that does thousands of releases a day, or do you want to look like, and I hate to throw an amen, but like less something like blockbuster that might do you know that used to do maybe a release every three to six months and when? What's the difference between those two things? You know, what separates, I think, a lot of these great organizations is the customer experience they deliver, and I'm going to focus our minds on digital. So in these digital customer experiences, how do we get from where we are today to a perfect digital experience? It's going to be some number of product durations and I don't know the exact number, and a lot of a lot of that number is going to depend on great leaders making great decisions on what should we iterate on, what what should we improve, and how do they make those decisions? Of what needs to be improved? Is continuous feedback. So we talked about continuous deployment, continuous integration and cicds is, you know, really popular right now, being agile. But I think to make those the feedback loop, to make those successful is continuous, continuous feedback. And more specifically, because I think a lot of companies feel like they get that continuous feedback from customers, from board members. Hey, I heard about complaints from lots of different people, or even on twitter or facebook. I think it's quantified feedback. I need to understand which issues are impacting my business...

...the most and if I can empower our engineering and Ikey organizations to deliver that to our business, to help our product owners to make those right decisions, I can have that quality of product durations be as low as possible to get to that perfect digital experience, and I think we can. We can count on the IT organizations, the CIOS, and I think it's almost so powerful that I think enterprises have developed a new role called the CBO, the chief digital officer, which many times the CEIO is filling that role, and some organizations that Cios are becoming cdeos, etc. But I think it's they've created a whole new reporting structure of the cdeo to own that. I want to take all this incredible effort that the it organization is done and I wanted to drive business outcome. So I think that's the conversations that I'm having with with global CIOS large enterprises about taking this because, you know, they've all kind of bought onto big data, but I think some of them are struggling with taking that big data and actually having a convert to insights and value, and I think we've kind of cracked that nut, which is super exciting. Yeah, you guys certainly have a good track record in that space and you know, I know that early days with quantum metrics, you guys got into a couple of fairly nice accounts which kind of added to that initial momentum that you had. What's some of the most gratifying deals you've been in that you kind of looked in the mirror or you look in the eyes you're your cofounders and says, Hey, guys, I think we got something here. But what were some of those early wins? Yeah, he's he might have. He might have helped some people sell some toilet paper. It sounds like I'm not and you know, we haven't quite made our rounds over George of Pacific, but I would love to do it and and then go go have a lunch a game with Dave. You know, you know gratification. May think some of the largest deals that we've done are pretty exciting, you know, whether they're in the airlines and hospitality retails. Some the largest retailers in the world use quantum and to be honest, I don't like to shoot names. You know, there's some names in our website and you can easily Google and say who are our customers, because it's sort of like public information because you know our tags deployed. But I don't want to pick specific names, but I will tell you you know I fly, I fly airlines and knowing the airlines that I fly most often are customers like that. It's just exciting. Some of the largest media publishing companies that I read online use quantum. It's just exciting. Like in my day to day I love going into a mall with my kids and seeing hey, my kids point out because they know really well who are customers, like Hey, dad, look, there's our customer and there's our customer and there's ours. Is Fun to see the kind of the tangible like physical stores, of our customers. Some of the largest clothing retailers, etc. So kind of surrounding yourself and like just looking out the window and seeing your customers out there, like it's just it's just fun. I mean I think your first large like our first customer was a was a fortune three hundred and I had a pretty big smile on face knowing that our first customers was one of the world's best organizations. And I think, I think a huge gratification is also there's a domino of fact that that every sales leader,...

...definitely every entour knows about, which is when you want to get into new vertical you know who your customers is one of the first questions you'll get and if you don't have someone that looks like them, they're nervous right they don't. They're going to make a bet on you and there and they're just not sure if you're going to be able to deliver for their space specifically. So I always love it when we break into you know, when we broke into a top five US bank like that was really exciting for me because I know from there the next tank was going to be ten times easier. And when we've got are, you know, one of the top three airlines in the US. Same thing, you know, other air lines would be simple and one of the top three insurance companies in the US. Like it's just it's really fun to really gratifying to break into an initially that we want to get into and having it be one of those large organizations because we know it's going to set us up for even, you know, greater success in that domino effect is just it's fun to watch. Yeah, well, and certainly with the accounts you have, you guys have certainly passed that inflection point where you know, we're not worried so much just to pay the electric bill as Oh my gosh, where the next hundred employs going to come from? And in scaling that company up yet an interesting quote in the in the Forbes article by Bruce Rogers last week, and you said this is not going to be a company that's going to win on product, this is going to be a company that's going to win on people. So obviously you've got a very central focus on your culture, on your people, the investment into, if you will, into yourselves and your own organic environment. Tell me how how you're going to take that and how you have done so far in your startup. How you going to take that and scale out to the next level without diluting or losing your your true North Compass bearing? Yeah, so, you know, I've had the incredible benefit of having just some of the greatest advisors that you could possibly wish for. I ran into you, John Chambers, x x CEO X Chairman of Cisco, in Portugal. Just happenstance and you know, by the end of the forty five minute discussion is about four other folks at the table, John Turns me and gave me his card. He wrote a cell phone number on the back and said call me tomorrow, and that kicked off an incredible relationship with John to the point where we talked every other week now and it's been amazing. You know, available by text if I need them today. But but to have a, you know, a mentor like John, I don't think that there could be a better mentor for me. And we have surrounded ourselves with other incredible mentors. Salil Desponde, Jeff Lieberman, Lonnie Jaffee to two of those are from inside eventure partners. One of them, you know, the Jeff Lieberman, is a MIDAS list recipient. Saliele Desponde, from being capital bench these incredible leaders that have been around for twenty plus years, having seen so many, so many start ups, so many text startups, become successful. They kind of know the ingredients of successive failure. And one of the things I got from these incredible advisors was I remember John Telling Me Mario, and I won't do his accent because I...

...don't think I'll do a good job, but the be a Mario, you need to interview every single employee. And then where are you going to let go? Is it's going to be at your discretion, but the first hundred and fifty employees you can't let go. And I remember talking to another advisor. This is an important part of like what does it mean to be an entrepreneur or leader? Is I talk to another great advisor of ours. He was a founder of a hundred milliondollar company, extremely successful, and I was asking about someone I was actually interviewing on the phone, when I text them really quite like hey, you know this person, what do you think about them? And he's like you know, he gave me some comments. It said why, and I said why, I'm on the phone interviewing and said why are you in. This is about employee number sixty ish. You know, why are you interviewing still? He asked me and I said, you know, we'll talk about later, but the know, the point is here's a great leader saying you should not be interviewing it. I'd employee sixty, and here's another great leader saying you should. You should be hearing every employee. And so for me, one thing to highlight is, as an entrepreneur, you're going to get conflicting advice from people that you respect and your job is going to be to decide which one resonates closer to your true north. And for me it was I'm going to stick with interviewing every single person. And it's not that John's always right and John's an INCREDIB leaders. I'm literally told John Another time I said, John, when you tell me great advices I love, I tell everyone that you said it, and when you tell me advices I don't like, it, just don't tell anyone. And so it's an important part of being a leader is that you've got, you're going to get a lot of input from from many different directions, and a lot of them are going to people you respect. You got to go with your true north, and for me it was interviewing every single employee. And as we pass a hundred fifty, so again we're at about a hundred right now, as we passed a hundred fifty, what my goal from now two hundred fifty is to make sure that everyone that gets to me is a perfect candidate. And there's a couple that have gotten to me that that aren't perfect. We know we didn't make an offer and with those folks that brought those tenets to me, I'm circling back with them and saying why they were not a perfect fit for our culture. Mostly when they get to me it's more of a culture fit than it is a skill set understanding and I want to make sure that when we get past a hundred fifty that are now deputy leaders are as capable as me as selecting who those next you know, cohorts here at quantum will be. So I think part of scaling is empowering your team members to take those next steps as if they were you, and so that that's for me. My fulltime job is is bringing new people on and empowering them to make decisions in the same context, when the same recipe that I would make those decisions and I think that's how organizations scale, you know, to multibillion dollar companies. Well, I think that's some terrific inside. It's certainly been interesting over the past number of years as a as a interested bystander, watching the quantum metric form and build and grow. But you know, I do think that the best, best days lay ahead for you guys and I want to just thank you for coming on the show today and kind of just wrapping with us about the journey you've been on and the good, the bad,...

...the ugly, and I just wish you nothing but success in the future, but I doubt my wishes are what you guys need anyway. Thank you very much, Mario, thanks mark and thankside and honestly know the wish is are absolutely important and we are only successful because of all the support that we get from our people that do wish us well. So I want to say thank you to the two of you. Thank you to trace three for the just it's just the highlight. One of our first actual successes was in the hands of trace three. So we company, the company, cannot be successful with our people, it cannot be successful without our partners. So thank you to trace three. Thank you mark. Thank you, todd. Really appreciate the support. Terrific thanks. Actually, the pleasure spin ours has been great. So thanks, Mario. See. Yeah, trace three is hyper focused on helping it leaders deliver business outcomes by providing a wide variety of data cent our solutions and consulting services. If you're looking for emerging technology to solve tried and true business problems, trace three is here to help. We believe all possibilities live in technology. You can learn more at trace threecom podcast. That's trace, the number threecom podcast. You've been listening to the founder formula, the podcast for all things start up, from Silicon Valley to innovators across the country. If you want to know what it takes to lead tomorrow's tech companies, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time,.

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