The Founder Formula
The Founder Formula

Episode · 2 years ago

Rehan Jalil, Three-Time Tech Founder - Knowing and Never Losing Sight of your Customer


On this week’s episode of The Founders Formula, we talk with Rehan Jalil. Rehan is a successful three-time founder, holds an AMP from Harvard Business School, has over 25 patents either granted or pending, and was named one of Ernst & Young’s Entrepreneur of the Year finalists.

So it’s safe to say that Rehan knows a thing or two about the founder’s journey, and we were blown away with the wisdom and practical advice he had for us during this interview. We discussed, among other things:  


- What to look for when assembling the winning founding team 


- The most important part of the pitch 


- The most gratifying moments for a founder 


- The lessons he’s learned along the way that all founders should keep in mind 


Listen to this and all of The Founder Formula episodes at Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website.

I think the most important aspect and validation is understanding what problem you're trying to solve, how big the market is, how many people need it, and a product that, if when, you should be given show to you know your prospects and customers. They can immediate you. Guys are made with it. The founder Formula Brings you in behind the curtains and inside the minds of today's brave executives at the most future leaning startups. Each interview will feature a transformative leader who's behind the wheel at a fast paced and innovative tech firm. They'll give you an insiders look at how companies are envisioned, created and scaled. We hope you're ready. Let's get into the show. Hey, everybody, welcome back. Super excited to be here. My name is Todd Galena, and with me is Tony Old Zach. He's a chief technical officer here at trace three. Tony, how's it going? Hey, it's doing great. Thanks for having me again. You are welcome, Tony. So much has happened since the last time you and I've spoke. I just wanted to announce to you that I have a new favorite silicon valley startup. They just raise twenty three million dollars. Oh Dude, sell. So do you want to know what they sell? You put it that way. I'm almost afraid to ask. Well, they sell water, like some kind of special water, or I think their name says it all. The name of the water is liquid death. So like a really special water. It's the most special. In fact. Their tagline is they want to murder your thirst. It's amazing. Hopefully not seriously. It's been like actually murder, murder you and your thirst. But no, it's really funny. This this company look with death. They just got twenty three million, as I said, and basically they just want to make drinking water cool again. So these things are like served in like sixteen ounce tall boys. They go for like, you know, fifteen bucks for a hundred and twelve pack, and you can you can get them at eleven and they've got like, if you go to their website, they've got like all these people with their heads cut off. So I can definitely, you know, see it, making a splash it and being cool. But I don't know, I don't know how often you frequent seven eleven, but I hasn't gotten us where we're at. Not so not an Orange County thing. You, you guys aren't guzzling down liquid death like it's going out of business. That's probably they would have nailed the demographic Orange County. I'm sure it would be a huge proponents of liquid death flavored water. It's not flavor it right. It's like this is like just like water in a can with some cool artwork and like that's that's the value problem. That's it. That's it. Making it makes you makes you ask yourself, why haven't you started company? You know, it wasn't like canned from from tears of you know, people who live in California and read got it into twenty three million dollars. Really Wow. Well, I can't wait to try it. I mean, hopefully it's magical. All right, if we if it gets out to Colorado, you got to check it out. But in the meantime I'll be hitting seven eleven multiple times on the way home. But there is so with the launch of that company. We also have some sad news that there has been a pretty huge Silicon Valley company that has wound down. They had a two billion dollars and funding and they are calling it quits. Yeah, I heard about this then this is this company for our listeners is quimby. So you know they started during covid. They lasted about six months, and so my question to you is, were you a quimby subscriber, Tony? You know, I wasn't. I saw some of the commercials, just never could pull the trigger. I'm not sure that they had. There was no real content that really like hooked us. And I don't know about you, and we cut the court alongz I'm ago. We we subscribe to so many services and subscribing to one more, you've got a nail, some kind of anchor content that really pulls you in. About you, Saut of... Did you subscribe to those guys? I didn't. I didn't and in similar what you were saying. You know, we have this smattering of subscriptions for for different reasons. Netflix, because we've kind of always had it, but I did end up buying the Disney plus because I can't live without the Mandalorian and that just came back and so, although I bought it, watch the first season, kept it for a little while and then shut it down. You know, I'm back and I'm back every Sunday. I don't know about I did the same thing. I literally subscribed, canceled, resubscribe just to watch the Mentalorian again, and I would pay like three times as much just to watch the Mentalori and if they would just film more episodes more quickly, I would pay for that. I'm with you. That is the coolest thing in the whole world. You know, John Fairbell fabroles. I'm already messing up his name, but he's got to figure it out. But we were talking earlier and you were talking about the cord cut. You've had some interesting experiences, you know, streaming live sports. Oh yeah, but yeah, it's a challenge. Live TV, I think, is the it's easier to buffer and record previous content, have that readily available and positioned and be able to serve that out to the world, and I think a live sports has been a big challenge. But you know, I recently subscribe to Youtube TV and I had an experience during the world series. It just blew my minds. You think about where technology can go and I can get you how it can change your life. And so basically what happened. Was a big dodgers fan and I was going to miss part of one of the game so I used the cloud dv are to record the game and about halfway through the game I finally get home. I grabbed some dinner and sitting down and I'm just hoping that I can, you know, skip the commercials and I go to select the game and there's an option I've never seen before on any of these platforms. It may exist elsewhere, and it says watch key plays to catch up to live and I was like what's no way. I press that button and it blast me through four innings of just key plays, no waiting, none of the pauses, none of the commercials, like no like waiting for a batter to come up and warm up and all the talking, just like just the key stuff that you need to know and caught me right up to live TV and my head exploded. Yeah, because we didn't have to like sequester yourself or isolate yourself for the entire time. The game was actually going on while you were getting caught up, like you can't get a text from a buddy, you can't read twitter, but immediately at one point you're totally caught up. So from the fifth inning, on your your part of the you know, your part of the spectacle. Oh, yeah, I mean like think about how we experience live sports or any live events today. I mean you almost have to shut your phone off if you're behind the times because the tweets, the the text messages that are coming through. I mean you could miss something legitimately importance just because live sports is going on. I good it. Just imagine my mom called me the next day saying hey, I tried to call you. I was I've had to go to the hospital for just this and that and Mike. Sorry, mom, I had to turn my phone off because I was behind on the game. I didn't want to get any text Mesa just didn't want to ruin the scar. You. Are you okay? That's so funny. No, I think of the text. So sometimes I won't be watching the game and then I'll get a text about the game and it'll be an uncompletely I wouldn't understand it. So, for example, during the world series, a text would come through from a friend. It'll just in all caps, just a Kershaw, and I'll say like you use something good, you do something, you heard, you know. So then I I don't want to ask because then I'm going to find out what's going on. But that's hilarious. Same Boat. It's going to change your life. You should check it out. I mean, I literally can't wait for the same things, like football games, Basketball Games. I want to try it on everything now. The purposefully late to just so...

I can see key plays. Yeah, the later you do it the better because you know most games are decided late, most good games right. So people will be doing it for survivor for Bachelor. You know, they're just going to get right to the end, you know. Yeah, watch key smooching until a lot of TV while you're watching the bachelor with that'll be the next feature. That's awesome. Hey, you you're ready to get to our guests? Yeah, let's do it. Okay, as promised, our guest is an entrepreneur, investor and three time founder. He holds an amp from Harvard business school and has over twenty five patents granted or penning. He was named Ernst and Young's entrepreneur of the year finalist in two thousand and ten. Currently he's the founder, president and CEO of Security Ai, which is a Silicon Valley base identity and data intelligence driven privacy and protection company. Please join me and welcome into the show Rahan Jalil. Rahan welcome. Thank you so much and thanks for hosting me. Yeah, that's great, great to have you on the show. Ray on it to take us off, we would love to hear more about your current business, security Ai, and why you started it. Absolutely a little bit background about myself on our team. Before starting security or AI, myself and our team we were helping run cloud security business for semantic and we've clearly seen that the data and individual rights on this data is becoming a very important topic. In fact, more and more regulations were coming along and also, you know, for most of the the breaches is the data that people are hack has going to go after, not only creating security issues but also privacy issues for the people for whose data is actually being stolen. And as we the new regulations, privacy increasingly become digital privacy, I should say, become an individual right, human right. It was very clear to us as a team that a new kind of technology is needed that can provide intelligence about an individual data inside the company and help protect it, help meet all the requirements that are needed for variety of different regulations in different geographies, and there was a new need and it's one of one of those things where we could have used our expertise on data protection and the understanding and dying to an identity and then having all the pub the biggest part sposed. So that is a bit of a background in the company that the Charter of the company is to enable privacy rights for the individuals on behalf of the companies and company able to kind of a build their brandon and trust with their users along the way. The company is based in silicon value. We close to two hundred people strong. Companies Young, but we considered the leader by Forster in forester wave for privacy management and this year outstic at autist the conference, we were rewarded the most innovative award the outs of two thousand and twenty and videous different equators that company act has accomplished over time. Yeah, it's odd. was was she'll mail those awards from earlier and an oxide. You had a question where you were curious about that side of the equation. Maybe that's a good sound to even like dig in. Yeah, absolutely, right on. You know, we did see a ton of validation coming from the RS a conference, as you mentioned, from the press. You mentioned forster, the analyst community. Is that by design? Do you recommend that founders, you know, place potentially a PR person on staff. Is that something that you guys did, or is that something that kind of came organically? Can you talk a little bit about how important validation is to a company and how a founder can potentially get that? Yeah, I think the most important aspect in validation is understanding what problem you're trying to solve all bing the mom it is, how many people need it, and a product that if,...

...when you actually can show to you know, your prospects and customers, they can immediately resonate with it and accordingly, when you show to whether it is in a in a competition, whether it is to judges, that it is to media, whether it is to analysts, they can immediately kind of resident. I think it's anchored on problem that you're trying to solve. Is anchored on the solution. You know how, in a way that it differentiated, is that you achieve trying to give into the hands of the kind of customers. I think that is really the core foundation of it and if that doesn't exist, no amount of marketing, no amount of R is going to help because there is just no takers to that that solution. I think that's the foundation of it. But we said that of course you have to pay attention to what your brand message look like. You know how you're positioning the company in the the solution at the product of course, is extremely important. In our case we had zero PR person in house. It was pretty much driven be few handful of people inside the company who who understood that you had to go to the key stakeholders and you you putting yourself in some ways. That's if you go to RSA and you putting yourself a bit wonderful in front of a massive, very competent audience, not just the judges, which are extremely competent there, but also the attendee of ours, as you can tell, you often with their very much into the in the details. So you you're putting yourself out there. You have to. You have to feel comfortable when you put it yourself out there. Similarly, when you go to an analyst and you explain the solution, you putting yourself out there. And if when you participate, like, for instance, the case of forester, you actually have to participate in an evaluation process and the outcome of that evaluation, it put you in the bottom of the tag also. So it's not that they guaranteed that because you kind of restarted, because it was a PR that an analyst like you know do teeple to do a very total job of evaluating a solution. They're going to put it out there on pop among the leaders. So which means you have to your product, your positioning actually have to be very, very well prepared and you have to have conviction. Otherwise you could be at a disadvantage also using any of these, you know, any of these contests and within the Adas community. Not being great nicely is also another good things. I think, how it's to go back to the product is the anchor of all these things and then, on top of it, you know, as better positioning. At our cast we didn't have a house pre know, you guys have had a son of success and in that arena and any time you kind of present your your baby to somebody, you know, the last thing you want to hear is it's ugly. And so definitely knowing that you're solving the right problem, you have the right fit before you engage and Kindada evaluation is huge. So congratulations on that. Thank you very much. Time we wanted to get just rewind a little bit. Obviously we mentioned previously that this is your third go around as a founder, but let's go back to maybe your childhood or even as you were kind of entering college. What in your background, you know, made you think that you could be an entrepreneur or a founder? Yeah, I think probably not necessarily by design. Thought thought so. But desire to create new things, to desire to solve meaningful problems and do it in a way that a lot of people can benefit from it. I think businesses and products exist to serve other people. They exist to solve real problems and if they can do that, often they don't have a right to exist. And I think, I would say it would that the journey of of course, technical background on the double ecs side of things. So I think there was simply a desire to actually create new things and solve real problems with those, those creations. Right. So that's how I would say the journey kind of started. I came to silicon value also by by an accident, you know, the sense that I didn't have clear understanding that silicon values, that magical place. Happened to be that when you graduated from my graduate program happened to be that you know by among the...

...many of the offers that they're one of them was in silicon. Value landed here, but it was it was very clear that in this place, if you actually have a desire to create stuff, you can actually, you know, offer value to other people and that becomes a business. I think that that became kind of obviously that the path, I would say, I took up upon in case of and you, I would say it's never an individual or the realization that in all others, never in dusual, that kind of creates a meaningful thing. It's all this is a team being lucky to actually have the right team that always came together in, you know, past ventures. This venture is obviously a major part of the reasons that were able to build some highly differentiated offers and create a value along the way. Right. I'll leave an example in security or DII. Part reason we felt strong that we can create meaningful, differentiated values because the background of the team was coming from data protection, plower security, clear understanding of how the data needs to be analyzed, classified and then, you know, what can you derive out of it? And of course we had to put new things on top of it from from the the Lens of the privacy length, but we knew we can actually pull that off. So pretty much obviously cool. Those to the team. That is their executed at the pretty much very similar team at the you know, a variety of leadership levels and and the team levels which have come also from, you know, pursue previous company also which we've worked together before. Yeah, that's actually something that we hear quite often and in you know, one of the questions that we kind of get back is this curiosity around taking the founding team. You mentioned how important it was to have a great team through, you know, three three versions of going through this yourself. was there any rhyme or reason of how you kick the founding team or was it something that you put in place before Easter the journey, or was, you know, after he already knew what you wanted to do it? Walk us a little bit through that. That piece of it. I think many of our listeners are very curious around, you know, how you actually assemble that team out of the game. Yeah, I think secured to day, I was kind of lucky to actually have the founding team and funding team members and we started as a sizeable team to begin with, and part of the reason was the domain knowledge, to mean understanding. We been background before, security guy. There was a company called Elastica, which pretty much similar team actually had helped build, and we became gotten magic gold leader, became forester number one in casby. Helped define, along with some of other fellow competitors, helped define the space of casby and it became, of course, you know, one of the top three needs for multiple years in a row. Right casby still is driving. So it is the same team that has helped create this whole category of Casby and I think it's very obvious that all of us have the aspiration to solve something new. We thought that we actually have solved a very meaningful problem with Casbian and, of course, associated infrastituation of the security and we want to fall something new, and I think it's it's not only the skill level of the team but also an aspiration to create something new that resonated. It's not simply the competence is also, I would say, you know, the emotion has to come along along the way, and that helped. You know, the people who wanted to do something. They pulled together, not necessarily that I had to pickut choose in some ways of a meeting of the mind and a track record of doing things before really help. So trust existed because we've done, you know, things before, and that was obviously the founding founding team, and of course, beyond that, then the team grew. You've been lucky to actually have a quite sizeable team in that, you know, short amount of time, and this team has now very obviously seven or eight products under the umbrella of Securitidi, which actually solves, you know, almost every requirement on the privacy side. That is that is needed. That's that's awesome. You know, one of the...

...things that I think many people are curious about because we always hear about the networking and silk and valley and it sounds like you've had direct exposure or worked with many of these folks that became part of the funding team at your your current end. Ever, in today's remote work kind of environment that we're refining ourselves, and do you feel like the future of talent congregating in places like Silicon Valley is as importance and form in those networks or, you know, what other ways do you think people will be getting exposed to the kinds of talent where you can form great funding teams to go after a big problem. It's a great question. Actually, I think there is no one answer to it. First, we not always going to be this re more. I think it's definitely for some time, yes, but eventually I think the world is going to be the way it was before. Yes, we bring some variations of it and how people feel more comfortable, maybe still working in more, but I think humans are going to be humans. They were basically collaborated together and more physical forms. It's just a matter of time. Yes, there will be more more acceptance of remote work, right, which means still a silicon value or any other city in which there is a density of talent, capital, education institutions, legal systems, constructs, all those that. They're very fluid. I think those geographies are going to private. Silicon Valley happens to be the postal child, but not the only one, of course. Right. Having said that, especially with, you know, open source and software being built across the world and having basically more awareness and contribution levels of people becoming more and more obviously transparent on various different forums, I think pulling teams together based on interest, whether they're geographically co located. I think it's going to be more and more. People are clearly examples that they are where innatarily have to be in the same place and you know, you actually, you know, pull together, whether not message just as a founding team, but that's a you know, following that where you're putting your team together, regardless of where they are, based on the skill set they have and because of transparency that you know, many open forums bring to bring to based on the research that they're done or the code they have written and things like that. I think there's will be more and more of it, no question about it. That would still say. The importance of geography is still in the process for quite some quite some time, but not the but not certainly the silicon valley. By no means is the only place where it's the action is. I like the picture your painting positive one of you know, people getting back together, gathering sharing ideas. I know I don't want to speak for Tony, but I know it's definitely something that that I've missed, kind of that collaborative things, those those impromptu meetings that you just have when people are in the in the same office. So I like that picture about your painting. I think. I mean you can look at the historically right. Dependemics is not the first time that's happened and much worse, unfortunately. They're tens of millions of people suffered and died and the world going back to where it was. Yes, it took time, perhaps, but I think that's it is going to go. But remote work, yes, maybe the more acceptance, it doesn't take away the human cood ombetition in person that I think is created. It's magic. I wanted to to talk a little bit about you as an advisor on the BC side. I know that you kind of coach folks on, you know, starting businesses, being entrepreneurs, being founders. Can you tell us a little bit about the pitch? You know you're going into a BC firm. You have a great idea. What's the most important part of a pitch? HMM, yeah, so I think the re see's because they see so many deals perhaps to day, you know, and they have a huge dealing so off and good becis have that. If you think that the attention to and depending on the we see, you know, of course, everyone has their own flavor. How big is the problem? Like. Is it never problem? Is it's a big problem, and how... it growing? Problem is you want to persist as a problem and continue to grow? I think that's one of the first things, because they all trying to go after for the right reasons, you know, making a bigger impact, and of course we're having a bigger it does accordingly. How big is the problem? And the second is what kind of solution that you're trying to bring in? Is it differentiated or is going to have basically, you can it? Can it hold its ground and be defensible over time? I think that's that's actually you two fundamental things, and that starts that. Of course, team is important, extremely important, because sometimes when you start from not not really end up and if there's a good team, perhaps it will navigate along the way. And many people, frankly many BC is, just start with the team. They'll basically have the right team and they'll say, oh, they'll figure it out and they'll kind of fun them or see them initially. And then, of course, the landscape of things. You know, the timing is important, not just how big the problem is. Timing wise, I early to late you. You know at what point you're inserting yourself into the market with that particular offer and then business model. Is that business model going to be sustainable? How repeatable is that? When when you don't you sell it to one customer, can you sell it to, you know, thousands of them? The same thing? Not, not a significantly modified thing? And how much effort is going to be to sell something you know? So I think some of these things become extremely important for most receive and that's what they're trying to look for. But again, have you said, because they are listening to many, many entrepreneurs every day. It has to get attention very quickly, because if you can't really get the attention in first twenty, thirty minutes, then you kind of lost lost that opportunity because the tventy of meetings happening a day now for most of the most important recus out and the ring that was it. These are most fundamental basic things, no rocket science, but when the right idea comes and it has all these attributes, the end up getting attention. So we just covered the pitch and I think that's you're starting to hurt along. was assumed that you you get funding. One of the things that we're curious about and you've had multiple exits and then you're on. You know it's your's, your your newest endeavors. Shire is when people talk about pivots and and one of the things that we're curious about is in that original pitch you've got a vision for the the company, in the solution, and then you know, you get your funding. How close, in your experience, were used to your original vision by the time you had some type of exit events? And then how did you think about how how you need it to Tivot or maybe or did you have to at all? I think it's a great, great question. So they are adjustments and then they are hard ports, right and him complete obviousity, or the two different things. So if you used will trying to solve the same problem, going off the same market and then adjusting the way the market needs this thing to be solved because you're adding new things into it, that's adjustment. Is a continuous thing that occur any any good team would do. In the case of Casby, for instance, we started with with gateway, at least started with the very first thing we did was to put an inline as we get away and we Microsoft Office restifies new and Google drivers. Of course there before you build something for that. And clearly we started there. But we are we soon realize that these companies were, you know, opening up the APIS and the thing that can be done, because we done with the Apis, were actually could show the proof of value much more quicker. So within the first I would say a few months, we literally we didn't give up the gateway side, for we added support for the AEA, which we never started with when we actually initially kind of started the company. I lost Toka in two thousand and twelve, but we very quickly on last on to it the eyes and and became one of the you know, one of the great decisions. It looked technology wise, because the team was highly technical and...

...they were gone dested in line traffic controls and all that. We came from, you know, the background of deepack and inspection and so forth. The ATL look actually technology guys looked like too simple and like it was to a point that, you know, some of the team members felt like this is just it's just too simple, maybe it's not worth you know, the innovation, you know aspiration that they have right. But from market side, was right into do and that we did. And then the edge came at. Along the way we started realizing more and more what the market needs are going to be, from data protection side of things to ub a side of things, to investigation capabilities. Our calls and pivots, but they were revolution. That happening as most discovery is going on. But we saw the exact same problem at the end of the day, and it became a multimode cast be became basically only a few companies could do it. One of the pioneers in there and and that's that's the reason it became, you know, the company became, I would be, quite successful, and even companies like Cisco started reselling that, that product put put that on the global prices and so forth. Right. So I would call them Collins, you know, minor pivots or additions and our adjustments along the way. We started from thought we're going to solve one way, but then we figure they a three different by solid and added all of them right same. The Very First Company was why? Chorus. We basically we knew there is a packet coordinated with a deep back inspection and we have to build hardware. Those are the Times than you actually build your own you know, boards and systems and stegs and silicon. You, you know, integate all the silicon. But the use of that platform, we realize there's in the stage that you know for genetworks are coming. So we should use a forge. We started the for G and then the act had to can even treaty guys can act use it to started out in creasy protocols in it. Call it a fivote or addition on the platform. I would say that that evolution of the but you solve exact same problem where we started from. But what most important thing is to keep an eye on the customer need and adjust sometimes adjustments and enhancements are easy, they must be done and even when they're hard, they must be done, because it don't no point driving something off the cliff because you just don't want her just or if it requires hard turn, I think entrepreneurs should be ready in bold to accept it and take that hard turn. Instead, affects you driving something off the cliff. That's awesome, by the way. Adjustments and hard pivots and keep it around the customers need. Just making sure your adjustments are there from a personal internal team level. You've this is, like you mentioned before just earlier week. Chorus and in Alastica and now with security Ai. Is it always as there always an exit in mind? Or have you ever said yourself, listen, I'm I want to build a company at you know, for I want to build a lifestyle company, and we're doing it for the long haul. Yeah, honestly, it was. Probably should never have an exit in mind, because if you have an exit in mind, you just not building the right way. Yes, exit past may come along the way and you can still choose to go one with the other. But I think if entrepreneurs start with exit on mine, they would probably never build something which was built in a way that others will desire, even desire right. And that's to often a mistake that gets made. The people start an inception of it. Are Building things will be sold. You never been something that somebody wants to buy at that point you I think the focus intensely has to be on value creation. As I said, businesses exist to offer value to others. Others could be consumers or there's could be people in Tire Company. It's literally to offer value to from the other people, right, and if that is not there, forget about any of it. Any other good outcomes, right and if that value creation requires adjustments and Phibits, so be somebody should do it and take that hit and do it. But if the VALU creation is there, good outcomes will happen. Whether it's a lifestyle, whether it is you know, you, whether it's a somebody requires it. You know.

I think those outcomes will happen. You know it's you know it's interesting from traceries research department, who evaluate startups on a regular basis. You feel like we can identify those who have a strategy to be acquired because frequently you're evaluating startups and you realize halfway through the pitch that this is clearly a feature of someone else's platform in the future, not necessarily some great solution on its own. Yeah, and you can tell by that if it's simply a feature, because it's going to be really hard to send that on the song. And that's from when if somebody's continue to bring new things and add on the probably in expiations for the platform, then I still be acquired because that's the nature of the markets and consolidation happens. But at least you can tell the expiation, the team aministration to create a stanione platform and may be lucky in that way. I mean, if you look at lasting at cloud stock, the cloud stock, you can google it. It's become the platform with it within semantic it became the fastest going business match. At this point it is the platform for cloud for is this infrastructure for CSPM. In fact, many of the few the acquisitions of also be integrated into it, including, you know, the web isolation, including the Sassy, the reverse boxing for the SASSIE. All our kind of become part of that, the platform, and it has become a kind of a thing that cloud stock is continues to live as a platform. One of the things we always have to dive into is just some interesting questions around culture and how important has culture been to the startups that you've founded and are there anything and is there anything in common e learn along the way that people should keep top of mind is as critical to the success of their company. It is super important. And let's think what what word culture is? Culture typically is the thing that people do. It's like an organization habit people when they're collaborating. What habits have they actually established over time, without the knowing they're doing things right, without the actually perhaps even thinking about it? They doing things and that establishes, you know, those are small little things that are happening along the way. Organizational how theirs, I would say that actually had the fine kind of the interaction and the culture inside the company, and this is a of course, no one answer. Every company can have their own culture, but at least for us, few things have been extremely important. The number one is valuing people's skills and merits but at the same time the people who are more humble along the way. It's often could be quite destructive that you know, people who are super talented but also, you know along the way they just know at all or it's only they want to listen to themselves and it breaks a team. Team Environment Right. So important that people who are extremely competent but the same time they understand they don't know at all and there other people who could compliment them and they're willing to basically participate and they want to learn. They were the deep desire to actually learn on their own and from others. And then it cree it's kind of for the fabric for actually the couple say the collaboration side of things, whether whether it is in person, that it is importe and so forthrme. Other important thing is that it kind of drives from the core fun linking initial team members who come in. They kind of help, not defined by writing. It sounds somewhere. Yes, I think is important perhaps, but it's all about how they behave along the way, because people see each other and then they want to follow, especially the senior senior team members side. So courteam, initial team that comes in, I think if they have certain way of doing things and the bells in, new team members come in. If the selection iddia is that you want to, you know, bring in people who can be fitted within that culture. I think it helps to you know, maintain the culture. If you're skating fast, growing fast, and...

...this is not attention, is not paid for, do it, then often you can end up breaking basically the topic itself. It doesn't mean that you don't bring diverse viewpoints and all that, not at not at all the verse addities. But the question is where the value, the very the cool things. They's tournamental, cored things that you know going to compromise on. Why do you think to bring the diversity in the the worst point of you and it's good sect in to the team itself. Right, but I would say it is. This is an operating system which is invisible but it dictates how you company operates and whether it is it's goes in the right direction or not. This kind of an invisible alperating system inside a company extreme important. Invisible operating system. I don't think anyone's ever kind of described it that way. That's awesome. And in the operating system, the kernel in this case is the core, you know, founding team to kind of kind of set it up and have it running. That's awesome. Gret on it is there. Is there a gratifying moment for a founder and if so, when does it happen? Is it potentially, you know, creating lifetime security for your founding team? Is it when a customer walks up to you and says you really solve the problem for me and my company, I can't thank you enough. Are they're gratifying moment, months like that for you and if so, you share them absolutely. I think the key key four categories. I would say the customers, when you get any email from them. In case of security, we have a very first customer. Large customers say and as soon as they we turn them on, you know they're she privacy officers and you know, and actually thanks, thanks, you know, like in a very kind verse, for Helping Solve It. The issues with the been they will otherwise with a hard time actual dealing with and a Ford to basically a team in the board. And I think those moments when you feel like it was worth the hard work that you put you and your team actually put through, or at that point it probably was over a year and it so the first thing is a kind of feeling like, okay, there is acknowledgement that what you built actually has value and it's as she's great for the team because it is hard work and it's not it's not a short, you know, short sprint. It's like you're running fast for a very long time and these things can re energize, energize everyone. Right. That's the first thing. It's very fine and over the course of time, I think the other thing, important, thing verifying is that when you pull together for years, our team, and if there is a good outcome for everyone, I think that's certainly the most gratifying. I would say, Ibous. The most gratifying, and which in doesn't include, of course, in vestors, is because they they put a trust on the team, yourself in the team, and you really want to make sure that they actually have a return along the way. Similarly, for the team, you really want to make sure that this is professionally a positive outcome and, of course, you know, positive outcome on the personal side of things. I would say these stand out as the most gratifying along the way. And thirdly, I would say that when the team you when you when you start, many team members perhaps started as division contommuters there the early part of the career or or they taking the transition. They jumping from large, large, you know company, but taking bigger roles and having the team grow, take bigger roles, whether with you and other places. That's also very great at time because you you know, you feel like okay people. Everyone has aspirations to which to grow. You know, professionally and personally, that actually they grew over time. And of course only the people who actually have aspirations and actually they have they have the skin, sective a end and growing, but it leads you. It was part of the journey. I think these things are probably the most gratifying along the way. Yeah, personal growth of the team. That's huge. Hey, right hand. This...

...has been great learn an absolute turn here. I just wanted to give an opportunity to maybe share something that maybe we didn't ask you. Is there anything that we didn't cover that she's like to share with future entrepreneurs? I think I probably summarize it, especially for future entrepreneurs, that look at look at the things that you did that actually interest you or you're passionate about and you'd really trying to solve and create value. Don't go after this where you want to be an entrepreneur. That's not no fun. It is. It is actually a touch job. It is a long term commitment on yourself if you want to be an entrepreneur, because you're not just you can just walk away because you don't like it. You can just say I'm going to switch my job. You're permitted to it. You know you you raise money for it, you have a team kind of work along with you, you can see you through. So pick up on things where you really think you can create value. So, because it's a long, long haul journey and it's going to be more bad days and good days. You know often which you will be dealing with. Right. But if you're passionate about creating value, fashion of word, create solving some problems and then these will be no problem. Yes, that is not be a problem. You'll go through them. But I would also say that, you know, if you have an aspiration to do things and to take the initiative, there is nothing like jumping into it. You can really do it part time. If you actually have that aspiration, then you brought me to jump into it. But before you do that, you know make sure that this is exactly what you want to do and passionate about. Great Advice. Thanks Very Han. You know, we were just talking about that earlier, about how, if you know you're shooting for you can embrace the grinds, but it has to be something that you love and that's the accomplish has to be worth it. So Love, love your advice there at the end and it's been fantastic avenue. I think you're a lot of the advice you've given. It's you could tell you've given a lot of thought, that you've been there, done that, and you've almost given other potential founders a framework, let alone answering the question. So just love having you on today. Thank you so much for listing. It's great to be parking over trace three which has been a great parkner here before Lostica, and really looking forward to the collaboration together. Great. Well, thanks for happing on, Rayn. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thanks so much. Good one TAK it. Trace three is hyper focused on helping it leaders deliver business outcomes by providing a wide variety of data center solutions and consulting services. If you're looking for emerging technology to solve tried and true business problems, trace three is here to help. We believe all possibilities live in technology. You can learn more at trace threecom podcast. That's trace, the number threecom podcast. You've been listening to the founder formula, the podcast for all things start up, from Silicon Valley to innovators across the country. If you want to know what it takes to lead tomorrow's tech companies, subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts. Until next time,.

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